Past, present and future.
We’ve only ever seen one act, and there are two more.
Its headlines will depend on your actions there, and in some cases, even the interviews you give.
Baldur’s Gate 3 always seems to have a surprise ready.
It’s a box of chocolates that never seems to run out.
And this speaks to the colossal project it’s been.
I’m always surprised when I’m reminded how many people have worked on it - around 400 people.
Larian is on the cusp of a new era, I believe.
It will stand alongside the BioWares and the CD Projekt Reds and theBethesda Game Studiosof the world.
And, of course, where it goes from here.
Swen Vincke:Um, nervous, excited.
What are you nervous about?
It’s a very big game so it keeps on surprising us.
It has its own quirks and eccentricities, at both a development level and at a gameplay level.
But also very proud because what the team’s accomplished is insane.
When you look at it, how everything interweaves with one another, it’s a thing of beauty.
I can see how proud you are of it when you’re demoing it.
Is there something in particular you’re most proud of?
The fact that we managed to do this is really an achievement.
We’re certainly doing overtime as we’re getting close to release.
Is that just another word for crunch?
Well no, because it’s not as if people are sitting in the office on the weekends.
It’s typically always the same teams.
It’s going to be code because there’s stuff that just pops up.
But this is not the same [situation] we had in the past.
For previous games, we crunched definitely much more than we did now.
Do you actively guard against crunch - are you on the lookout for it?
I think the team as a whole guards against it, but necessity sometimes happens.
It’s the unforeseens, it’s the things that you don’t expect.
We have some accidents and then we have to work to fix them, but it’s very limited.
Like them, you’re on the cusp of a new era, I believe.
What do you think about that comparison?
I can understand why [you said it].
This depends on how Baldur’s Gate 3 will do!
I don’t know this.
This game should not be made, right?
And that will define what we can do afterwards.
For CDP, Witcher 3 was a huge success.
But certainly historically, yeah, I can see why you would draw this connection.
How much do your plans for the future depend on the commercial reaction to Baldur’s Gate 3?
That’s something you could’t know upfront.
But the studio began way before then, back in 1996.
That’s correct actually, yeah.
What was it like back then?
Who were you at the time and what was the dream when you started the studio?
It’s as simple as that.
And this came from what - a love of pen-and-paper or of Ultima 7?
That’s like ‘the game’?
That’s the game.
Everybody has this game that defines them.
And then Ultima 7 was the first modern RPG in my eyes.
I just knew this was cool.
You must have talked to Richard Garriott in the past.
I have never met him.
That is a meeting that should happen.
Anyway: The Lady, the Mage, and the Knight was cancelled.
Was that an issue with the publisher?
So the publisher back then was basically self-publishing, so they were a developer.
After that happens, Larian takes a turn towards more action role-playing games like Diablo.
Why do that if you wanted to make things like Ultima 7?
Even LMK could have come out but we were forced to move it 16-bit because Diablo was 16-bit.
I had an agent back then.
He said, “Not going to happen.”
If you say “action” the numbers go times ten.
If you say “turn-based”: not happening.
That’s a good point.
This is a Dungeon & Dragons game.
A lot of people know Dungeons & Dragons, even if it’s just at the baseline.
They understand I get an action, a bonus action, I do this and off you go.
BG3 takes you by your hand and lets you do that.
And BG3 is now influencing how I play D&D, and vice versa.
It was when we got the rights back forDivinity 2that the [switch flipped].
That’s when I said, “No, I’ve had it.”
And since then, things have been going on the upside for us.
[Laughs]
In the hope that the money would come in.
It sounds like that was a big bet.
Did it feel like one?
Well, it was a big bet.
And they usually do.
And they said no?
And they said no, because we just ran into ‘the one guy’.
That’s why we were so upset about it because it shouldn’t have been an issue.
And it was true; it was more than ten times.
Was that the point you knew things had changed for Larian?
The release of Original Sin 1?
That was the big breakthrough.
DOS1 was the big change.
I was amazed looking back that only 46 people made Original Sin 1.
You’re ten times that now.
So Original Sin 1 was more systems-focused, and the narrative was really made almost on the side.
And then with DOS2, the change was ‘we’re going to make the narrative good now’.
That’s what I meant with the different approach in growth to CDP.
And if DOS1 hadn’t worked, would you have had to close?
I don’t know - it’s a very hard question because history went in another direction.
We wouldn’t have had any reserves left.
I honestly don’t know.
That would have meant work-for-hire again, which was really what we didn’t want to do.
We actually stopped during DOS1, so thank god it worked.
Have you made any similarly big bets since then?
It’s also a hard question.
If you work with one publisher, will they pay, will they go under?
That’s the publisher story we had.
So those are always big bets.
So there will always be big bets made on a game.
BG3 is a big bet, we’ve put a lot into it.
I don’t think it will.
Now, after it comes out,you announced that you were making two games.
One of them was Original Sin 2; what was the other one?
We were making two games… DOS2… What was the other game?
We had many projects that we then cancelled.
I have to remember.
I don’t remember.
Was this after DOS1?
I don’t remember.
There’s been a lot of those.
I mean there’s always little things that you try out, sometimes bigger.
Any that you could talk about?
Well, Fallen Heroes.
We announced that we closed it [put it on hold indefinitely].
That didn’t work out.
Is that gone for good, then?
Yeah, it’s gone for good.
And there’s one that you never knew about - I can tell you that.
Soul for Frost Island was the code name.
It was a separate game based on DOS2.
It got quite far in development.
What did you do in it?
It was DOS2 with new mechanics.
It’s very hard to make multiple games at the same time.
It’s the next big step essentially, figuring it out.
We’ve tried it multiple times, we’ve failed multiple times.
We’ll see if we’re successful with the next one.
We’ll be a little bit more careful in announcing it.
Was the development of Original Sin 2 quite straightforward?
From my point of view, it seemed to be.
It was and it wasn’t.
The narrative component was the big innovation in DOS2.
Origin stories - being able to play as an origin character - that have multiple perspectives on the story.
DOS2 was a much denser storyline, also, which was very free, which we wanted to do.
That was the hard part about it.
That’s where most of the grey hair comes from.
As a world, as a development, there were some technical changes that we did.
We went to [physically based rendering], but it was fairly straightforward.
Also, the development line was much shorter compared to previous games.
It was an informal conversation.
It was literally, “Hey guys, we should be doing this.
What do you think?”
[And they said:] “Oh, ah, nice to meet you.”
I had a lot of arrogance, if you want.
I said, “Look,we’rethe company to do this - look what we just did.
You should give it to us.”
They looked at me like, ‘Who is this alien…?"
And they were right.
Did you know them quite well at the time?
[Laughs] I didn’t know them at all!
It was actually funny that you mentioned CD Projekt: it was the people at GOG who introduced me.
That’s how I got to them.
So, yeah, I went before.
That didn’t go anywhere.
But then around DOS2, while we were still developing DOS2, they came back.
So we had to draft the first story by then.
And when they came back to you, what did they say?
And so with a few changes-
So you had talked to them about an actual idea for the game?
What was the idea?
What was that initial pitch?
It was essentially what we did with BG3.
It all sounds so simple.
I had this discussion with a developer.
How hard can it be?"
You could have been with two [companions], or one.
I did appreciate your dragonborn walking around with his top off so we could see his scaly six pack.
The cinematic team solved all of those problems.
And that’s systems-driven, multiplayer-driven cinematics - I don’t know what to call it!
It’s just insane.
It took a year before we actually signed a deal.
Only after we signed, because before that, we didn’t tell anybody.
So we negotiated for a long time to see if this was going to come together or not.
Did the idea come quickly for the story?
I kid you not, that was it.
And they looked at me and said, “Mind flayers?
It’s always mind flayers!”
It was pretty cool.
It’s a great opening to the game.
I love it when you don’t have to explain someone’s motivation to them.
I said that will instantly engage you.
But no - “I’m dying - I’m turning into a monster!”
OK I get that.
And it can be anyone - that’s the cool part about it.
It allows you to get any role in there.
They can come together because that is their common goal, to get this thing out of my eye.
Yeah, there were.
Can you say what any of them were?
No, not really [laughs].
So while this is going on, Original Sin 2 comes out and does very well.
Can you talk about how many copies those two Divinity: Original Sin games have sold?
I actually don’t know on DOS1.
It’s a lot.
[Laughs] Can you be more specific?
‘Many millions’ is the real answer.
Enough to sustain something like BG3 and allow us to develop it.
It suggests it has sold an awful lot of copies.
How does its success compare to DOS2 - is it an order of magnitude higher?
Oh vastly, yeah.
It’s vastly more successful than DOS2.
it’s possible for you to’t compare it.
I think it’s five-times in early access, if not more.
I don’t know the numbers by heart - it sounds crazy but it’s true.
But it’s much, much, much more successful than DOS2 was in early access.
But no, BG3 is way more successful as an early access title.
We will figure out if it’s going to be way more successfulafter, then we’ll be happy.
But I don’t know.
I really liked the dating feature we saw today.
Can you go on dates with everyone in the game?
For everybody, it’s a different story.
But you’re able to romance them.
There’s only actually two that it’s possible for you to’t romance.
And can you go on more than one date with a companion, or do you just have one?
So the romance is across the entire game.
Some people are more open and faster, others will take their time.
Others bifurcate depending on where their storylines land.
There’s quite a lot of actually - there’s quite a lot of romance in the game.
I’ve read that the level-cap in the game is 12.
It’s enough [laughs].
We have over six hundred spells and actions!
In DOS2, we had two-hundred and fifty.
It’s enough [laughs].
It’s also that the pacing is correct.
I suppose it gives you room to extend it, potentially…
Everybody tells me that!
But that’s god-like levels and it’s like, how do you make an RPG withthesethings?
Because you’re free to’t contain people, I guess.
No - that’s it.
So I don’t know, actually.
I would have to think very hard, together with the team, on how to do that.
I can’t talk about that.
I can’t talk about the agreements [smiles].
Would you have to pitch again?
I really can’t talk about that.
But I think Wizards is very content with what came out of BG3.
you might ask them but I think they’re going to be quite content.
We didn’t want to grow this much but we had to because this game required it.
It’s what we want to do.
We’re getting really good at it.
We didn’t expect that we neededsomuch to be able to do it.
Nobody expected, like, lighting people or sound people.
That’s a lot of movies that have to be made.
But you need everybody that you need on a movie set.
That’s a lot of people.
That’s where that comes from.
We didn’t expect this growth.
So now we want to manage it.
We want to consolidate a bit so that we can focus, and then we’ll see.
Maybe we’ll make a game like Into the Breach - who knows?
[Laughs]
On that point: you’ve found a lot of success with turn-based games.
Does that now define what you do - are you a turn-based developer?
Ask me my favourite games-
Would you ever push out of that?
I like a lot of things.
They work really well.
They’re much more approachable.
I think if anything I would like to… Never mind, I’m not going to say that!
No - finish your thought!
But it’s not the be all and end all.
It’s got to be good.
I don’t want to make a combat system that’s ‘oh it’s like that game’.
If somebody already did it exactly the same, I wouldn’t want to do it either.
Well there we go!
